Greg's 1932 Ariel Square Four 4F600

[Greg.Dobinson]

Well I think I'm finally ready to do my first post about this motorcycle

My uncle is an avid antique car / car parts collector and at some point about 20 years ago the topic of motorcycles came up. (I had got my motorcycle license and bought a bike shortly after I started working at age 20) He casually mentioned that he had a motorcycle and did I want to see it. Of course I said sure and we ventured into his storage garage and made our way into the back corner where we found this:

He told me it was an Ariel Square Four from 1932. I thought it was pretty cool although in much need of some TLC. It looks like there was a fair bit missing. The tank had no instrument cluster and both fenders were missing. It looks liked most of the handlebar controls were gone and who knows what else. I took three pictures of it and we left the garage. When I got back home I saved the pictures on my computer and tried to do some research online but found there to be almost no info on them at that time. I'm not positive if the date on the image is correct but it shows 2003 so this was still pretty early on in the Internet days.

These are the other two pictures I took that day.

DSC00622.JPG (86.58 KiB) Viewed 401 times

So I knew the bike was certainly not common and I remember finding a bit of info here and there but not very much. Every once in a while I would dig up the pictures and do some more searching and researching and was able to find more info as the years went by but that's about it.

This year we went for a visit to see my family and one morning my uncle called me and asked if I still wanted that Ariel of his? Um.... yes please I had no idea what he was going to do with the bike (or any of his car parts) but I certainly didn't think he would gift it to me. After letting him know that for sure I was interested in it he said that no problem it was mine, I just had to arrange to get it back home.

We flew back home and I started working on how I was going to get this motorcycle. By road it's roughly a 2000km trip so I looked into various options like having it shipped or flying it home etc. In the end it was decided that we would make the road trip in my truck and have a bit of a quick family vacation at the same time.

It took a lot of back and forth on when the best time to go was but we decided to leave June 24th and we got back home on June 30th.

In the time between our first trip and the road trip I spent a lot of time doing a lot more research and joined the AOMCC. I'll post about the interesting history I discovered in my next post along with more detail on the bike.

[Julian Murphy]

'Pulls up chair'.

Waiting for installment #2.

[Greg.Dobinson]

So how did this motorcycle end up in Canada? I was curious so while waiting for my roadtrip I started to dig into things.

When I got my membership with the AOMCC I was also sent some info on my bike from the factory records. My bike, frame T1542, has a despatch date of February 12, 1932.

The bike was imported by Overseas Motors Inc. There is almost no information on Overseas Motors online that I could find so I did some research in the archives of Toronto and area newspapers. This should be useful to anyone else with a bike from the same dealer.

Overseas Motors was incorporated on November 15, 1929.

It was headquartered at 133 Danforth then 185 Danforth Avenue in Toronto, ON. They moved from 133 Danforth to 185 Danforth at some point between 1931 and 1932. They imported British motorcycles although it's not clear to me yet whether they sold them as well or just imported them for motorcycle dealerships. I was able to confirm through some ads that they certainly did import for other dealerships as evidenced by this Windsor Star advertisement in April of 1932.

Another ad in the Toronto Star seems to infer that you could buy an Ariel directly from them but it's hard to say.

I found them listed in the Might's Toronto directory in 1931, 32 and 33 but nothing in 1930 or 1934.

I did however find out shortly after the reason why - they declared bankruptcy in November 23, 1932.

Overseas Motors also served for a time as the headquarters of the British Empire Motor Club. J. Graham Oates was elected as their first President and was also Vice-President of Overseas Motors in 1931. He was quite the character and there is quite a bit of info about him online.

1931 Might's Greater Toronto City Directory.JPG (17.12 KiB) Viewed 387 times

Next.... was the motorcycle sold in Toronto or.... Winnipeg?

[Vincent.vanGinneke]

Welcome !
And what a gift, absolutely your favorit uncle !
That Cammy SQ4 looks very promising, although 'a few things missing' it might prove a challenge to find the right parts but it will be worth it.
The frame at the front looks rather more substantial compared to a standard one.
Extra cross tube and gusset plates in the centre.
Perhaps it was used to pull a heavy (trade?) sidecar ?
Lovely tan colored seat cover, don't change that !
Succes and keep us informed please !

[Karol Burger]

I think your engine could be from 1933-34 and they modified the engine mounts to fit the older frame. It would probably be easier to find a 34-36 frame marked Y and refurbish it as a short-engine motorcycle.

my thread about the 1934 model

viewtopic.php?t=14556

If you are looking for information on the 1932 model, here is a thread from my renovation

viewtopic.php?t=11109

[Greg.Dobinson]

Thanks Karol! I have went through your threads a few times... amazing work and quite inspiring!

Thanks Vincent There's more to come on the missing things... some good news actually.

Karol's sharp eye has foreshadowed my next post... more to come on the engine.

[Greg.Dobinson]

Along with the information about the motorcycle from the factory records there was a second listing showing a replacement engine being sent to Brown & Winter in Winnipeg on June 22, 1933. The remarks say "Engine fitted with Magdyno only". The original engine was T666 and the replacement which is in the bike now is TA384. I wasn't sure but it seems like it is a newer engine (1933), thanks for that info Karol

Brown & Winter was a motorcycle dealer in Winnipeg that dealt in Harley Davidson and Ariel among others. It also served as the headquarters for the Manitoba Motorcycle Club for a time.

Here's an ad from February 29, 1932 advertising the arrival of the new Ariel's. Given the despatch date of February 12, 1932 for my motorcycle it's possible that it was among the first bikes to arrive at Brown & Winter although this is just a guess. The dealership is long gone and the motor vehicle records were almost completely lost in Winnipeg due to a fire in the 1950's. I reached out to the Manitoba Motorcycle Club and they do not have any records from that long ago. They also had a repossessed Square Four listed in their newspaper classified for a while and I found a private classified for a Square Four in "A1 condition". Not anything that can give me more info on my motorcycle, just interesting to see.

This makes for a bit of a mystery on how the bike ended up where it did. If it was sold in Toronto then it made it's way up to Winnipeg after about a year. The highway between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay was just built in 1932 so it's possible it came up that way or potentially by rail as well. My uncle purchased the bike from a man in southern Ontario and was using it for ice racing near Wiarton, ON. I'm slowly discovering a bit of damage here and there so I'm wondering if he had a few minor crashes. Anyway, somehow it traveled quite a distance in those days whether it was sold in Winnipeg or the Toronto area.


Oh the saddle is listed in the remarks of the factory record. It is listed as a "Terry Dominion Saddle".

[fpassmore]

Greg,
Nice acquisition ; where are you located? I am in BC and although I don’t ride anymore have a few bikes and spares including two 1932 4f600 crankcases.
Frank

[Greg.Dobinson]

Hi Frank... I am in Northwestern Ontario abiut 2 hours drive from Winnipeg.

Any chance you have a front fender or headlight?

[Ian.Taylor]

Greg, That is a GREAT find.
My 32 OHC came from Overseas Motors as my 31 Ariel VF.
There is a Gent in Ottawa area that is restoring a 32 OHC.
British Bikes here in Canada rarely stayed stock.
Money was tight and parts scarce so the owners did what they could to keep them going.
My 31 Norton was like that .I kept a lot of those mods because to me it is period original.
My 31 VF was robbed of its gearbox, gas tank etc then parked to rust away.
There was a 30s Norton ES2 found in a barn that had floor boards, leather bags and a windshield.
again to me I would have left it as found. It was still in good shape. I would have retained those parts.

I would make yours nice, safe to ride BUT keep the period items.
Just my 2 cents worth.