RH at H&H auction

[Vincent.vanGinneke]

I contacted the auction house :

" Dear Sir , Thank you for your email . We will look into this and if necessary prepare a saleroom notice at the auction .
Kind regards, George Beale Director Motorcycle Sales H&H Classic Auctions "


The words 'If necessary' strikes me the most, dont think he really cares.

[paul.jameson]

I looked up the engine and frame numbers as quoted for this bike. They match and the bike left the factory on 29/4/30. Interestingly, it was a Model B sidevalve !!!

[Dave.Thomas]

Sold for £8550

[leon.mitchell]

I looked up the engine and frame numbers as quoted for this bike. They match and the bike left the factory on 29/4/30. Interestingly, it was a Model B sidevalve !!!

Please excuse my ignorance, but I don't get what's going on here.

Neither the engine (crank case) nor frame on this bike are 1930 Model B (correct?), so the numbers have been changed.

The numbers have been changed because??? I thought that it had to do with log books - we don't have continuing registration out here in Australia so I don't fully understand the log book thing. Someone had a log book for the 1930 Model B, and a pile of Ariel bits, and so they restamped the numbers on the bits to match? So they could get a 1930 number rather than age-related? Then why isn't it for sale as a 1930 model? Is the registration number from 1930?

In Australia changing engine and frame numbers is a crime. How does an auction house sell a bike like this? What documentation does it come with? How do they know it's not stolen?

Puzzled,

Leon

[adrie.degraaff]

In Australia changing engine and frame numbers is a crime.

It is a crime in all countries but sometimes it's to complicated to get papers on it so the owner is using what he has, but indeed it could also being stolen.
Restamping is done as long as there are motorcycles, an other complication is the selling of nice licenseplate numbers by car dealers, that should have stopped long ago.

[Vincent.vanGinneke]

They dont care.

They take your money and run.

[admin]

I looked up the engine and frame numbers as quoted for this bike. They match and the bike left the factory on 29/4/30. Interestingly, it was a Model B sidevalve !!!

Please excuse my ignorance, but I don't get what's going on here.

Neither the engine (crank case) nor frame on this bike are 1930 Model B (correct?), so the numbers have been changed.

The numbers have been changed because??? I thought that it had to do with log books - we don't have continuing registration out here in Australia so I

Puzzled,

Leon

The vehicle logbook is supposed to match the vehicle it purports to belong to and links it to the vehicle registration number (or numberplate)
Thus the engine and frame number are on there, along with the vehicle make/model. Without sight of this vehicles logbook, if indeed it's got one, it's hard to know what it thinks it is. If it doesn't have a logbook, then you can claim it to be anything and it's caveat emptor ( to be fair, a log book is no sure test of authenticoty either )

This is why the vehicle registration folks, here in the UK, try to ensure stuff that is now registered is registered accurately and it can also be pretty tough to change some information without substantial evidence. Paul Jameson, who did the dating until fairly recently, can give you a glimpse into this.
If you have a frame with a logbook, then you could essentially build what you want into it. If the vehicle is early enough, then it wouldn't need a yearly vehicle roadworthiness test (he MOT) either and thus nobody else would really see it.

That said, things were much more relaxed in days gone by with regards to logbooks.
It's possible that previous owners have mixed and matched, whatever they liked, and the logbook has been gradually changed.