Electronic ignition

[nevhunter]

I don't recall ever owning an English Bike that was Coil ignition. The Lead acid batteries had a rather short life, and Jo Lucas's generators needed attention fairly often. Recommended return to factory each 8000 miles. BTH were a superior Magneto. and Maybe Lucas KLI (racing ) I'm working on one now. The Morse magneto is the Best of the Bunch. Rotating Magnet. Nev

[Ian Mc.]

In defence of the magneto, I own a 1989 new fangled rotary Norton. In my 30 years of ownership it has had 4 replacement electronic ignition units, the last of which has been returned to the manufacturer twice for repair and is faulty again. The magneto on my 70 year old VH never causes trouble. With points and coil you do stand a chance of repair, Progress apparently.

[Mike Nash]

My apologies to you all for this delay in replying and thank you for all your comments. And apologies too, to Vic.Araujo who started this thread which I’ve rather hijacked.
Everyone says that a good magneto is the best option, and I’d agree, for in the 1970s when I was doing some 16,000 miles a year on my VB both to and from work and to various firms across much of the south of England, my magneto was dead reliable, and I worried about it no more than I did about my monobloc carburettor. But today it’s different, and the only person that I know who uses his Ariel for work (Steven Carter) has, I believe, a Thorspark kit fitted to his magneto to get him anywhere reliably. (Perhaps this a path Vic.Araujo should examine.)
I too, have Thorspark fitted, but I have yet to run it, yet feel that the Brassington Modification is more in period for my 1956 bike and so it’s an idea that I continue to explore. But Professor Falco has pointed out a defect with the pick-up brush system, and this is the point I’d like him to address further and advise us how to improve it. Prof Falco is a man of so many parts (look him up on the interweb) but I fear that so far we’ve only met “Magnetoman”. There must be another alter ego in there somewhere (say “Delcoman”?) who can devise improvements to this modification. Afterall, the Kettering ignition system that was an invention of his native America some 110 years ago is clearly dead reliable as it swept magnetos away from the motorcar, probably for ever.
Regards from MikeN.
PS Could a transistor “relay” be fitted post the existing pick-up that might operate on very low current?

[cmfalco]

To somewhat broaden the discussion, the fundamental issue being addressed here is aging electricity. No, electricity isn't getting old, we are. A person's retirement years go through three stages: go-go, slow-go, and no-go. Many (most) of the people reading this likely are in the transition period between riding motorcycles like hooligans, and being relegated to rocking chairs by arthritis, hip replacements, and heart stents.

With the above in mind, I made a flow chart that shows paths we might take, and the requirements for some of those paths (e.g. conversion to 12 V if an electric starter is to be added to an old motorcycle).

The disadvantage of switching entirely to a new motorcycle is the cost. However, the advantages are a ~1 kW alternator, electric starter, fuel injection, heated seat and handgrips, disc brakes, …

The disadvantage of any electrical modification to an old motorcycle is having to rely on aftermarket components. Further disadvantages of adding an electric starter are the cost of the necessary 12 V conversion, still-low output of the generator, crude appearance of the addition, …

Of course, no matter what choices are made, it's only postponing the inevitable. Still, irrespective of the original reason someone had for riding motorcycles (e.g. inexpensive transportation to work or school), it's a good bet that at this point something else motivates the small minority of us who continue to ride when most people have opted for the comfort of automobiles. But, small minority or not, for people who refuse to age gracefully, postponing is a worthwhile strategy.

[martin.wilton]

Good evening all
I read a lot but say very little on this forum there are far better experts on here than me.
I do however have experience of using the magneto’s points to operate coil ignition.
Over 20000 miles combined on 3 bikes (over 12000 miles on one bike).
I use an intermotor alternator brush with a wire tail built into the brush which is modified to fit the pickup.
I am very happy with it indeed.
When my 37 NG got oil onto the dynamo fibre drive clutch the bike still did 60 miles home when it was not charging.
It has its advantages and disadvantages but it works for me.
I can give more information for those who are interested.

Regards Martin.

[cmfalco]

the point I’d like him to address further and advise us how to improve it.

Before addressing this request, I'll subject you to a few stories. The first aftermarket transiterized ignition systems appeared in the early 1960s, with the promise of making points last forever by reducing the current through them to milliamps. They might have worked great in testing, but once they had been in the field for a while it was discovered that the current was too small to keep the points clean.

As part of something I had been doing with the artist David Hockney, I made a portable camera obscura that I could carry with me to allow audiences to work with projected images. I was really proud of myself for my cleverness in designing it for the average height of a woman, since it was easier for a man to bend down a little than it was for a woman to stand on her tip-toes. However, my smugness was dashed when the very first person to set foot inside was left-handed, and my "clever" design was quite awkward for them.

Bosch invented the "modern" magneto in 1902 so, by the time the last production British bikes used magnetos 60-some years later, and thanks to the over a gazillion (estimated) magnetos that had been made by then, all possible "unexpected" scenarios had been encountered and accommodated, e.g. operation when partially submerged on a trials bike (or during an ordinary day in Scotland…), operation at 120 mph at the Isle of Man, operation with the uneven firing intervals of a V-twin, etc. By comparison, modern aftermarket electronic ignition systems for old British bikes have received negligible testing. And clever alterations by owners, even less-than-negligible testing.

"What does this have to do with the price of gas in Hormuz?," you might be wondering. I'm glad you asked. Way back when I was an undergraduate, I used quality diodes to make a full-wave bridge rectifier for my Triumph 500 that I proudly measured to have 0.01% (or whatever) higher efficiency than the original. However, as time passed, my interest slowly changed from "upgrading" the electrics of British bikes, to optimizing them. As a result, there likely are very few, if any, people reading this who have a more extensive range of instruments in their garage, all acquired to aid my interest in optimizing, not upgrading, electrics made before George VI was King. Of course, there are exceptions, such as modern film/foil capacitors, LED bulbs, and total-loss NiMH battery packs but, as they say, exceptions prove the rule

All of which means, as Obi-Wan Kenobi said, I'm not the droid you're looking for.