Starting Problems.

[fgething]

Hi, I bought my Leader about six months ago, it was not set up right but after a bit of fettling got it to go and start o.k. I have not been far with it yet just round the B roads in South Yorkshire where i live. Before Christmas i was out on a run when it stalled on a junction and refused to start i had ridden about 40 miles tried for a couple of hours to get it to go and while waiting for a lift home it started a bit rough at first but managed to get the last ten mile home. Could not find any thing wrong with the bike as it started the next day as if nothing wrong. A short while later i sent to the Ariel club for new Plugs, Points, and Condensers and i also bought a new Carburettor, not used it much but it starts after one or two kicks and appears o.k. Went out on the bike yesterday did about 40 miles got it home put it on there stand left it ticking over for a minute or two then turned it off. went to start it again after approximatly an hour and it would not start no way. I checked the Plugs, Points, wires, took carb off checked the Jets found nothing, tried to start it with out Petrol filler cap on ( in case breather was blocked ) no luck bike would not start, put back in garage after trying for a couple of hours and locked the doors, went out this morning Petrol on, tickled carb, ignition on starts first kick. Tried it several times all o.k. went out did approx 40 miles again this afternoon got bike home put on stand out side garage ticking over like a good un. Turned off ignition, tried to start it after about an hour same as before would not start kicked it twenty times or so not a flicker, like before every thing looks o.k. Bike now in garage again to see if it will start in morning. I don't know what to try next, if it had a Magneto i would suggest it might need re-furbishing as it could be braking down when getting hot, only thing i could think of was the coils but when touched they appear o.k. Has any one come across this problem before, or as any ideas what could be the problem, all suggestions gratefully received. thanks Fred.

P.S. The bike as been started lots of times and starts o.k.

[B.Lewis]

So it starts OK from cold?
Sometimes cuts out after running for a while?

Maybe a restriction in the fuel supply?
Blocked gauze filter or similar issue?

Can you get your coils professionally checked?
Might be breaking down when hot?

[fgething]

Hi, Thanks for the reply, the bike does not cut out but will not start when after a run( 20 - 40) miles i put it on the stand and turn it off when getting home. I have thought about the coils getting hot and backing down, i did try to test them a while ago but appearing o.k. i am not to sure now about them. last out on the bike yesterday 25 mile run started first kick after returning home turned the ignition and petrol off after 5 minutes tried bike but would not start again until some hours after then fires up again, so was thinking along your lines of the Coils being at fault, they do look like the originals.

[dave.owen]

Fred, often a problem is after running and parking up the fuel vaporises in the carb preventing restarting, talk to Alan Mayo or John Ellis. They may be able to help

Dave

[fgething]

Thanks Dave, not thought that way.

[johnwalsh]

Could it have anything to do with crank/crankcase seals. I know that worn seals in two strokes can cause poor starting, but not sure if it would be worse when warm.

[B.Lewis]

Please don't be offended Fred but.......
Maybe your symptoms could be caused by using too much choke and / or tickling when restarting?
If a Leader motor is "flooded" then it will not start immediately but will do so again after standing for a while.
At the risk of teaching Grandma to suck eggs etc. have you tried starting it without any choke or tickling - and probably with throttle open a bit - FIRST when it is warm / hot?
Just a thought.

My money would still be on the coils.
Second suspect, i.m.h.o. would be the condensors.
Maybe I have been unlucky or something but not all new condensors seem to be 100% - and dodgy condensors will give all sorts of weird effects on a 2 stroke.

FWIW, my experience of worn crank case seals is that they usually make cold starting difficult but it's not so bad when warm.

[nevhunter]

Are the pistons a bit loose? I've found that will cause hard starting hot as even though the piston is a bit expanded the crankcase compression is not good. Remove and earth the plugs and turn the motor over with the throttle open a bit. There should be a distinct noise as the transfer ports open and pass air through. Nev

[fgething]

Hi every one, thanks for your reply.( johnwalsh ) yes John the crank case seals are suspect, this engine was referbed by Dragonfly in 1992, and then along with the bike not used until about 8 / 9 months ago as the story goes so maybe the seals have hardened off, ( B.Lewis ) Hi, have tried it when hot with out tickling carb or using choke but makes no difference to the bike, and yes will try with new coils in next few days, Plugs, Condensers and points changed when this problem came to light. ( nevhunter ) Hi, as above Nev engine completely striped and renovated some time in the past. There is no indication how many miles it has done but 99 % sure its less than 1,000. I have gone what i think is the easy way by buying to new coils today at Stafford show ( 6 volt Lucas ) will also put new H.T. lead and plug caps on. if this does not solve the problem then " unless some thing else occurs " i will strip the engine and change the seals. Thank you agin for your suggestions.

[keith.mettam]

Hi Fred,
The likelyhood of both coils or both condensers going faulty at the same time seems a remote one so I don't think the problem lies there. If one coil or one of the condensers had become faulty then the engine would attempt to try and run on the good other cylinder. If it was fuel vapourisation then by lightly flooding the carb or trying to start it hot with some choke I would expect it to start. If the petrol tank breather was blocked I am sure you would become aware of that in under forty miles. Is the battery in good condition and likewise the charging system? Have you tried starting the engine with the ignition in the emergency position when you have this problem (I believe they have one) ?
As the engine has done so few miles since its rebuild I wouldn't expect the pistons or rings to be the problem (assuming they were within spec when rebuilt and the motor carefully 'run in'). If you are running out of options it wouldn't hurt to pop the barrels off and check the pistons and rings. My guess is you will end up replacing the crank seals when all else fails.
Good luck with it Fred.
Regards,
Keith.