VH Valve question

[Dave.Barkshire]

I have had new valves/guides/springs from Drags put on the 1938 VH by a local engineering company. I noticed that they did not put back the cupped washers under the springs and also the valve end caps.

It seems that the springs are too wide for the cupped washers and the end caps make the valves too long.

I think that it should be ok without these parts but was wondering if the panel thought I should start to panic?

[Simon.Gardiner]

Sack 'em and sue 'em.
I can't see how they can pass an opinion on the end caps without having the engine assembled, valves 'made too long' by end caps would mean that fitting the end caps lost all the tappet clearance.
The only time I've seen that happen was when the numpty doing the valve seats had cut so much out that the closed valve position had 'dropped' by 3/16 inch. (Having said that it might be a previous numpty that has screwed up the valve seats and then shortened your old valves to suit.)
The valves for the '38 are the same as all the later iron heads so if the valves were now being made longer I'd have thought someone would have noticed.
I think you ought to do some checking on the valve springs, up to 1950 the springs are wider (according to Drags info) so someone may have fitted the later, narrower valve springs and cupped washers - which is probably a better idea as the earlier ones are generally considered to be over-strong (putting more pressure on the cam and followers).
(If you check some other recent threads you'll see that you are also missing the hallite washers that go under the lower retainers and that are also generally considered to be a Very Good Thing !)

SG

[david.anderson]

Dave
The bottom cup is there to locate the springs. The inner spring is located by the inner part of the bottom retainer while the outer spring is located by the outer part of the bottom retainer. Without the bottom retainer the outer spring will walk all over the place and get tangled with the inner causing excessive friction and preventing proper operation. Further there is a halite insulating washer that is located under the bottom retainer. That insulating washer keeps the heat out of the springs and stops them losing tension. The insulating washer is essential. The larger bottom retainers are available or can be easily made on a lathe.
Again the valve caps (or similar) are essential. They are hardened to a much greater degree than the valve stem. Without them the tappet adjuster screw will wear an indent into the valve stem in no time and I have seen an engine where the screw adjuster also spread the top of the valve stem preventing its removal through the guide.. An alternative to valve caps is to have the valve stems built up with stellite weld and ground back to shape. Over long stems can be trimmed a bit extra before building up with stellite.
David

[brenton.roy]

Hi Dave,
As David is saying, the valve ends will get pitted and will spread without the caps.
The other issue that you have with your valves losing clearance to the tappets is the wrong 'angle of attack', which tends to push the valve stem sideways into the guide. You don't need this wear in an exposed valve head.
The hallite washer insulates the temper of the valve springs. Leaving out the bottom cup is just slack.
David's Stellite idea would be the most cost effective, depending on the mileage you think you will do.
Maybe look for another local engineering shop?
regards, Brenton

[Dave.Barkshire]

Thanks you all for your welcome comments. I am an innocent abroad as always.

Much thinking has been done.

Wider spring cups should be a solution to that problem along with halite washers. I ordered them from Drags and then got a zero value invoice email saying that it was all on order. They seem to carry very little stock nowadays or maybe I have just been unlucky. I am looking for another source if anyone knows of one. (or some original size skinny springs)

Regarding the valves, there is one clue... the valve lifter which is on a taper seemed to be in roughly the same place with the cap on so I think that if the seats have been cut a bit deep then it may have been done previously. It was running beautifully so I'm not too worried. The adjusters do seem a bit high without the caps but I will put them back on as they do not touch the alloy screw-on caps.

[brenton.roy]

Hi Dave,
sorry, I thought your motor was exposed valve.
It seems that the original thick rocker cover gaskets aren't so available, so I have been using aluminium plates under the rocker boxes with thinner gasket paper to give a better height and rocker angle.
I think annealed Copper would probably be better as it is softer - I just had some aluminium plate. A good starting point would be 1.6mm.

[dave.owen]

I believe drags now sell alloy rocker gaskets for the vh.

Dave

[ray.tolman]

Hi guys,
If I may ask a question for you all. My 1937 RH (open valves) has the impossibly strong valve springs.
What part number do you order to get the softer springs?
Thanks for any help here.
Ray

[ian.scott]

I just use the outers on my 35 open valve.

Ian

[ray.tolman]

Thanks Ian.
Do you get any valve float?
Ray