Primary chain lubrication.

[Roger James]

Hi Colin,
Didn't want your question to be ignored,unfortunately I don't know where you can get new old stock clutch plates or any that have been re-lined with cork with the many small sections as originally fitted by the factory.
It must be a couple of years ago now that a friend recognised the shortage of clutch plates so arranged for a supplier to reline some old plates with cork segments unfortunately the first batch were deemed unusable as there was too much glue in between the segments that in places was level with the cork itself that would have caused problems as the cork wore down as it would then be rubbing on the glue, they were sent back for the job to be done again but it all came to nothing in the end more on the grounds of cost. Someone else volunteered to try and get them done somewhere else but as far as I know that came to nothing also.
What you would think would be a simple job isn't that simple bearing in mind the need to scrupulously clean the old plates, using the correct type of adhesive and correct thickness of cork plus the cutting and time spent glueing all those little segments in place you can see why some suppliers have taken to just glueing four or so larger segments of cork onto the plate, they might work fine but I have heard from owners that this type of cork clutch plate doesn't work too well on the Leader engine.
I'll speak to Keith who tried to have the clutch plates reconditioned and see what the present position is in case he's found someone else to do the job properly at a reasonable price.
Good luck with your own clutch, if its not slipping now why don't you put some oil back in and try it again, it could be the new cork has settled down and any high spots worn off with use so might not slip now.
Roger

[Roger James]

Hi Keith,
In answer to your question - yes it is possible to put too much oil in the chaincase of the Leader/Arrow engine, and by a considerable amount, but only if for some reason you should neglect to remove the Oil Level plug bolt.
Roger

[bh.sprint]

Hello,

I tried two different types of clutch plate linings, both full circle types and both of them caused clutch drag even with the minimum amount of free play. I tried the Villiers Services linings and it worked OK but the linings are a bit thicker so as mentioned before used an original plate to keep the overall thickness down. The linings are black with flecks in them. Villiers Services are at 3, Merry Hill,Quarry Bank, West Midlands. DY5 1SA Tel. 01384 265797.

Brian.H.

[colinmnorfolk]

Hi Roger and Brian,
Thanks for your continued helpfulness.
I daren't try adding oil again Roger, I've tried quite a few times over the past year and each time with the same result....increasing slip!
Interestingly it didn't slip immediately but would sooner or later if I tried it on a run, usually on gradients or if I tried a bit more acceleration. Also even if I made it back without too much trouble, and I left the bike for a few days, you could bet it wouldn't start on the kickstart as clutch slip stopped the engine turning over. As well as various oil types and grades as previously mentioned I tried minimal oil, half full, exact amount, etc. It seems my clutch does not like oil in the chaincase. Incidentally when it first happened after fitting the new plates I stripped it down several times to clean and dry them, and started the whole thing over again. I now think it's just that the new plates are actually not up to the job !

Thanks for Villiers Services' details Brian, I will give them a call on Monday. Did they specifically supply your plates for an Ariel ? I checked their website and noted that although they don't mention the Arrow or Leader, I think, but they do quote for B.S.A. C15s.
And here's an interesting point, when I needed a new headlight chrome rim, Draganfly stated they were out of stock and were trying to source them from a new supplier. I tried everyone I could find on the Internet all to no avail until I remembered Ariel were, of course, part of the B.S.A. Group (with Triumph) and they all had many common parts. So I ordered a C15 headlight rim and lo and behold. it was an exact fit. Not really surprising as it was for a Lucas headlight but the supplier was a B.S.A. "expert" who didn't know if the rim would fit an Arrow and Draganfly didn't try the same route even though they had just started expanding into B.S.A. parts !
I helpfully put them to rights, of course.

Best regards.

[bh.sprint]

Hi Colin,

Someone else used Villiers Services and they were pleased at the improvement to their Arrow clutch. They seemed to have made a good job but they don't advertise them for the Leader or Arrows. They say the plates are used on trial bikes. The cost was about £ 45-00 including postage for the three plates.

Its getting a bit warmer , time to get the bikes ready for a run.

Regards Brian.H.

[Roger James]

Hi Brian,
Its not getting warmer here in hilly Derbyshire, pretty darned cold in fact whilst working in the shed everyday last week re configuring one of the Arrow projects, it had a bare crankcase fitted so took a short cut and fitted the rebuilt engine that was in the Arrow Ron used at Mallory the other year only to have a heck of a job to get it to fire up then it ran erratically, after various checks and the running getting worse decided to strip the engine down and change the crankshaft seals and bearings, it had the old Nitrile double lipped seal fitted that had numerous small cracks in the seal lips, although the rubber was still supple it was hardly gripping the journal and therefore suspect allowing leaks from one side of crankcase to the other hence the erratic running. This is the third new old stock centre double lipped Nitrile seal that's failed on my Arrow engines in the last couple of years that have had to be changed, I now only fit Viton seals. Wonder whether its age or the petrol and its Ethanol content that's causing the problem or combination of both.
Couldn't stand another day in a freezing shed so wheeled the Arrow into the house and worked in comfort yesterday as I started the rebuild, should be back together and running today.
Roger

[bh.sprint]

Hi Roger,

I might change that weather summary , it's gone cold again. I like the twin headlights and the mirrors on the Arrow, they have given me an idea for the MK 2.
I seem to have spent a lot of time on the taps so the 'injector' has not progressed as much as I would have liked but I'm getting better slowly.

Brian.H.

[colinmnorfolk]

Hello again Brian and Roger,
I really appreciate your input into my original query....I have learnt a lot ! As I mentioned earlier, I'm on my 4th Arrow but it is the first time I've had clutch trouble. If you look at my threads it is clear my problems started when I drenched the chaincase ploughing through a pig farm entrance. The problem started, obviously, when I fitted modern replacement linings. Modern replacements bedevil classic bike and car owners so club forums are are a great help !
As said I will take Brian's advice and use Villiers Services in future, but continue using chain lube in the meantime, (as long as the clutch doesn't slip).
I would also like to voice my admiration for Roger's commitment to the Arrow and Leader cause, I have noted his helpful responses to many queries on the forum.
As an aside I would like to add a brief description of my 2nd Arrow bought from a breaker in 1966. At the time Motorcycle Mechanics ran an article on how to tune a racing Arrow based on (was it Herman Meir's ?) T.T.machine. I stripped it down to the basics, raised the primary compression by filling the flywheel holes, extended the transfer ports, opened the induction ports to take an 1 inch and 3/16th Monobloc, skimmed the heads to increase the compression ratio, fitted a Pride and Clarke racing tank and seat, fitted very noisy expansion chambers, and finally fitted a Manx Norton racing fairing ! It went like stink but was over geared as I had also fitted 19 inch Alloy rims but did not fit the larger Tiger Cub rear sprocket as was advised.
Anyway it all came to nought as I sold it and bought a cafe racer B.S.A. 500 S.S. that would have left the Arrow for dead.There's no substitute for cubes !
All of this led to me obtaining a bog standard Arrow in 2001 (except for the ubiquitous "Golden Arrow" paint job) and then my current original black and ivory Arrow.

Best Regards.