I might have found an HT3

[alan.moore]

Hi Gents,
Not been on the forum for a while but could do with a bit of advice / knowledge.

I've been put onto a possible HT3 that was last taxed in 1968. Apparently its in bits and there is also a 500 engine (not known if its an HT5).
I haven't seen it yet and negotiations re price have not been started. Its owned by the widow of the chap who had it, I don't think the family are into motorcycles.

I'm after a few pointers so that when I go to look at it I have an idea of what is original specific to an HT and what may just be standard VH/NH etc.

I also want to pay the lady a fair price. If I get it it will be for my collection not to sell on. Looking through auction sales it appears that around £5000-£6000 pre commission for an up and running HT5, but as you probable know there are not many about so not many come up for sale.

I've restored a 1939 VH and a 1942 WNG and have a 1952 VHA on the go at present so I know how much it costs to restore them, even when you start with an essentially complete bike.

Also, probably for Roger....I've read anything from 40 to 60 despatched for the HT3.... from your records what is the most likely number.

As you all can imagine I'm pretty exited to have the opportunity to own an HT3 so any info, thoughts etc would be gratefully received.

Cheers
Alan

[will_curry]

There isn't much in common between an HT and a road-going Ariel - the frame, forks,
gearbox, swinging arm, back wheel, oil and petrol tanks are all special.

I've only knowingly met one HT3 and that was in darkest Oxfordshire a very long time
ago. I never really saw the point with the 350 weighing pretty much the same as a 500
and being somewhat down on power when it came to deep mud.

Mind you, Ray Pettit reckoned a good 350 was all anyone ever needed and he was
much better at trials than I ever was.

[Simon.Gardiner]

Alan - if you're going to start getting into these you might want to have a good look around the 'BSA Otter' website.
Here's a good starting point
http://www.bsaotter.com/ariel_ht_factory_build....html

SG

[nevhunter]

Rather good article Thanks. I wonder what head and barrel are used on the 3. nev

[Roger Gwynn]

I have already spoken to Alan but I thought others might be interested to know what we know about numbers of HT3.
32 were built in 1957, there are 13 known survivors, 8 of which have the correct prefix
44 built in 1958, 21 known survivors, 17 have the correct prefix.
These numbers put them in the top 10 survival rates along with several other models with low production numbers eg the single 1955 MKII HS has survived so has a 100% survival rate!

[will_curry]

One point in the BSA Otter webpage which puzzled me was the statement that the HT3
had a BSA 7" half-sided hub rather than the Ariel 7" full-width alloy hub of the HT5 and
the roadsters. The one I knew in Oxfordshire I'm sure had the Ariel brake and all of the
contemporary photos I've seen show the Ariel brake. The only one I've seen with a BSA
brake was auctioned at Bonhams some while ago and didn't seem to be that original
in other respects.

[Roger Gwynn]

I noticed that as well and have told him that he is incorrect. In the caption to some of the photos he mentions the BSA brake but the wheels are definitely the Ariel 1/2 width with fulcrum adjusters, BSA were not that sophisticated. He mentions them in a photo part way down "Ariel the other GOV", the photo supposedly of 1958 works SSDT team on HTs with 1/2 width Ariel hubs. I thought he has the year wrong it must 1955 but they are s/arm machines so possibly late 1955 using 1956 models because the 1955 HT were rigid. I don't know enough of trials to date it but I doubt Ariel would let them use out of date brakes, even if they were/are superior.

[will_curry]

Somewhere I have a photo of Ron Langston on what is captioned as an HT3 with the Ariel half-sided front hub
and my HT5 from 1957 also has an Ariel half-sided front hub. It was a production bike being sold in Leeds but
it does have BSA yolks and the hub has been narrowed to make it fit, something I didn't appreciate until I
borrowed it for one of my other Ariels.

[Roger Gwynn]

The HTs do have BSA yokes but the parts book lists a standard FW hub in 1956 and 57 for the HT. As some BSA use the FW hub I am pretty sure the stanchion spacing is the same so the hub shouldn't need to be narrowed. I have a BSA 8" hub in my regular bike and the width is OK. My 1958 HT3 has a FW hub with the seals on from the 1958 SSDT, although as I don't think the seals can be dated it could be from a later year. My 1955 HT has a standard 1/2 width hub in BSA yokes, I haven't done any work on it yet so it is possible it has been modified to fit but i don't think so.

[alan.moore]

Sammy Miller recently restored a 1957 HT3, it appears on a couple of his YouTube videos. It sold at Bonhams last November for £7300 hammer price.

Sammy says: We have just restored this Ariel HT3 in our restoration workshop, all done by our expert Jim Devereux. The whole bike has been restored regardless of cost and surely must be one of the best HT3s in the world. The bike came to us with the registration number ‘677 AJH’ but unfortunately no paperwork. When we bought the bike it was 100% original and not modified in any way. We decided to do a total restoration as you would never find a 100% original competition Ariel HT3 again.”
This has a full width hub up front and this photo shows a fulcrum adjuster so an Ariel brake and forks??

Don Morley's 'Classic British Trials Bikes' book has a chapter on the HT's including a few period photos including his own HT3. They all have a full width front hubs. He does detail the fitting of BSA heavyweight forks and yokes (42-5010 top and 42-5012 bottom with head bearings 65-5126 and 65-5127) which are 5/8 narrower than the Ariel setup but this means the Ariel hub wont fit (unless modified as Will's post) and requires the 7* BSA single sided brake. He says this was the setup on the HT prototypes.

The factory sales leaflet for the Ht's shows a full width hub

There is also a YouTube video which is also on the otter site, where John Bartram shows what is what on an original HT frame. In that he says the headstock is a B series BSA item ?

Cheers
Alan