Stolen Frame?

Bikes or not. Whatever
Post Reply
John.reader
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:49 pm
Contact:

Stolen Frame?

Post by John.reader »

Is there anyway that I can find out if a second hand frame that I have recently purchased has come from a stolen machine. I bought the frame to enable me to reassemble a VB that I bought back in the nineteen eighties from a man who decided to make a "Chopper" out of it. People did things like that back then! He destroyed the original frame by first cutting the gearbox mounting lugs in order to try to move the chain line over to accommodate the wider rear tyre he was proposing to fit, but what finished it off completely was when he cut the lower top tube and then bent the steering head forwards to try to increase the rake of the front forks. At this point he realised that the whole job was beyond him so he binned the remains of the frame and sold me the rest of the bike for £40. Sounds cheap now but it was about right at the time. So what I have is a whole bike less the frame, and its been sitting in the back of my garage from then until now. So the project is to rebuild the the bike into this replacement frame, and hopefully that will be another one saved. Now obviously I am about to invest a fair amount of time and money in this, and it would be heartbreaking to discover at a later stage when trying to obtain a registration number that the frame had come from a stolen machine that had been broken for parts. So my question is, is there any way that I can find this out now before I start work.
The frame number is AS 499.
I'm not sure if this post should go in the four stroke or main chat forum so I have put it in both. Apologies if this is incorrect.
As usual, any help or advice would be much appreciated.
User avatar
chris.shearwood
Holder of a Silver Anorak
Holder of a Silver Anorak
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Sutton, Quebec, Canada
Contact:

Re: Stolen Frame?

Post by chris.shearwood »

Where do you live? Here in Quebec the provincial police can check a frame number to see if it is on their list of stolen goods.
1946 4G and 1951 VH
User avatar
Roger Gwynn
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 1113
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 11:34 am
Location: Norwich, UK
Contact:

Re: Stolen Frame?

Post by Roger Gwynn »

There is no record of As 499 in the club's register, which doesn't mean that it isn't stolen just that if it is I haven't seen or heard of it being stolen. In my experience DVLA in the UK do not check frame numbers and in fact say they cannot look them up. There was a famous case where an innocent party bought a bike that had been stolen many years previously and was able to claim the original number in spite of the bike being recorded as a stolen vehicle. I wouldn't worry.
Roger Gwynn, Membership Secretary, curator of the Machine Register and the works drawings. Director of Draganfly Motorcycles, Craven Equipment and Supreme Motorcycles mostly retired.
User avatar
admin
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 1199
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Stolen Frame?

Post by admin »

John.reader wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:57 pm I'm not sure if this post should go in the four stroke or main chat forum so I have put it in both...
I don't think checking for stolen stuff is necessarily a 4-stroke thing (or even an Ariel thing).... ;)

I've deleted the duplicate post in 'Four stroke'.

SG
User avatar
paul.jameson
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Holder of a Golden Anorak
Posts: 2933
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:04 pm
Location: Herefordshire
Contact:

Re: Stolen Frame?

Post by paul.jameson »

Technically, DVLA's take on the matter will be that you are rebuilding the spare frame machine, rather than the destroyed frame machine.
Paul Jameson
35 LG (project), 37 RH500, 52 ex ISDT KHA, 54 KH(A), 75 Healey 1000/4.
Former Machine Registrar & Archivist, General Secretary and Single Spares Organiser (over a 25 year period).
Now Archivist (but not Machine Registrar), Gauges and Clocks Spares Organiser.
tony.barnett
Holder of a Waxed Cotton Anorak
Holder of a Waxed Cotton Anorak
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:19 pm
Location: Swindon, UK
Contact:

Re: Stolen Frame?

Post by tony.barnett »

I don't know how to check the frame is stolen or not, but...when I tried to register my 1928 Ariel DVLA told me there was a problem with the frame number (despite it being original and them having inspected it). From speaking to Others - it would appear someone else had used my frame number in error many many moons ago - their actual number was one digit different to mine, but they used mine - it was on the DVLA database, and it flagged up. So while DVLA won't check for you, they do check themselves.

In all probability though, its unlikely to be a stolen frame. If you are in the UK my suggestion is build the bike up loosely so it looks like a bike, then get it registered before starting work.
KOBI
Swindon Branch Secretary
Ariels - 1913 TT Model, 20 Roadster, 28 Model D, 30 Model B, 38 VH, 52 VH
Velocette MAC, KSS Mk1
Julian Murphy
Holder of a Waxed Cotton Anorak
Holder of a Waxed Cotton Anorak
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Stolen Frame?

Post by Julian Murphy »

Thats the way.

Build it up including a set of wheels, any wheels would do, so that it looks like a motorcycle.

If asked, clearly unrideable, but you are 'restoring' it of course.

Apply for your reg number and send pictures, not too detailed of course.

If the frame number is flagged up then you will not have spent much money to that point.
John.reader
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Stolen Frame?

Post by John.reader »

Thank you all so much for your replies. I mistakenly thought that there was a data base somewhere that could be accessed by the DVLA, and large motorcycle club admins, such as the AOMCC or the VMCC for the purpose of helping to track down and recover members stolen machines. Obviously I was wrong about this, my apologies.
So what I will do is what Tony and Julian suggest, and loosely assemble all the parts of the VB onto the new replacement frame, photograph it, and then try for a registration. Then as you have pointed out, if it all goes bad I haven't lost much apart from my time and the cost of the frame.

Once again, Thank you very much for all your replies, they are much appreciated.
ken-drink
Holder of a Nylon Anorak
Holder of a Nylon Anorak
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Stolen Frame?

Post by ken-drink »

what ever you do dont tell the dvla you are building it from spares, you are restoring an old machine, i know someone who did that, big mistake he ended up with a Q plate and having to get it mot ed , and the insurance companies did not want to know or were very expensive, get a dating certificate for the frame and use that when applying for the registration that way you will get an age related no, if you dont have documentary proof of the registration to the frame no you wont get the old no back from the dvla, having an old tax disk wont work, been there done that and got the T shirt. the dvla are a pain give just the info they need and nothing else, dont elaborate and give them just the bare minimum of info.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests