1954‘ish VH

SimonFletcher
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Re: 1954(ish) VH, re-registered ’57

Post by SimonFletcher »

pete.collings wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:59 pm I had modified my Ariel to use rearset footrests, shortened brake lever and reversed gear lever, and utilising a pair of BSA pillion folding footrests that were adapted to fit into the sidecar mountings. I used a folding kickstart lever, but needed to heat and bend it with a greater crank level to clear the (folded up) offside footrest. This also cleared the centre stand. It was further out than yours is in the attached picture.
Once I got used to it (I had to position the lever further forward to clear my leg when on the footrest), the bike could be kickstarted easily off the centre stand (a Huntmaster needing a hefty swing to fire up!)
Belated thanks for this info, Pete, I think I will end up buying a standard kickstart lever… I do have some experience of the Huntmaster kickstart and how strong a leg you need to deploy it. A late friend of mine (and member of this club), Patrick Sargent, had a few laughs at my expense, as I attempted to kick over his Huntmaster 'special'…
’54 VH,
‘72 BMW R60/5, ‘83 BMW R80RT
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Re: 1954(ish) VH, re-registered ’57

Post by SimonFletcher »

A bit more news on the clutch. I had previously mentioned that the clutch on this bike seemed unnecessarily heavy, compared to my Airheads, which themselves are not particularly renowned for lightness of clutch…

First step was to follow the earlier suggestion of @will_curry and re-route the cable along above the primary chaincase, and this did have a noticeable effect (one less bend), but still heavy. Off with the clutch cover and consult Mr Waller on clutch adjustment:

"All clutch spring adjusting screws should be screwed down only just sufficient to allow the end coil of each spring to be visible when sighted across the face of the centre outer spring plate. Tightening the screws too far will have the effect of compressing the springs beyond a free working limit, and will thus render the withdrawal action very stiff and heavy".

Well, the adjusting screws were wound in so far that the head of the screw was disappearing into the cups. Also, there was a lot of oily crud distributed around the place. on dismantling, here's what I found:

IMG_4252.jpeg

IMG_4255.jpeg

IMG_4257.jpeg

IMG_4260.jpeg

Nice!

It appears that oil is somehow seeping along the gearbox mainshaft into the clutch – maybe from over-filling?
I understand there is an oil seal at the drive sprocket end of the gearbox, but not sure whether this would prevent this occurring?
The centre nut is not tight, and will need re-tightening and re-locking.
The splines on the centre drum have been quite heavily notched by the plates. Is this a significant issue?

The friction plates have oil soaked and to quite an extent literally burnt Into them. The plain plates are heavily rusted in places and during use (amazingly the clutch still worked after a fashion) the rust has combined with the oil have coated the friction plates with a very effective 'glaze'!
Last edited by SimonFletcher on Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
’54 VH,
‘72 BMW R60/5, ‘83 BMW R80RT
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Re: 1954(ish) VH, re-registered ’57

Post by SimonFletcher »

Post-clean-up, things look like this:

IMG_4264.jpeg

You may think they don't look much better! I'm unsure whether these items will be serviceable really, but I'm intending to give them a try.

To my way of thinking, the spring adjusters had been cranked in further, probably to counteract a slipping clutch. And no wonder, given the amount of greasy and oily gunk distributed around the place. My hope is that with a bit of work, I can get the whole thing functioning a bit better, and with a lighter feel.

Another interesting feature:

IMG_4268.jpeg

One of the springs is longer than the others, and wound from a slightly thinner gauge wire. I think I will order a set from Draganfly, as Paul suggested!

Onwards and upwards!
’54 VH,
‘72 BMW R60/5, ‘83 BMW R80RT
will_curry
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Re: 1954(ish) VH, re-registered ’57

Post by will_curry »

The inserts look to be ferodo type rather than cork and will benefit from DraganFly's
heavier springs. The tags on the outside of the plates look to be quite worn although
the basket doesn't look too bad. However the wear on the clutch hub is more than I
would care to use - the plain plates will get trapped and the clutch won't free. The
notches can be machined out but the greater the clearance the quicker the plates
hammer more groves into the surface.

Optimum would be a new set of plain and cork insert plates from Geoff the Gearbox
together with a set of suitable springs and a new hub. One of the beauties of the
cork is that it isn't too bothered by oil, unlike the ferodo.

On the other hand if I needed it for work tomorrow I'd just put in a set of DraganFly
springs and keep doing the overtime.

As I've said before the cork is a much nicer material, smoother, requiring less spring
pressure and far less bothered by oil. Ferodo on the other hand will cope with much
more mis-use and is ideal for scramblers and huntmasters but it is prone to snatch
and requires a much higher spring pressure.
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Re: 1954(ish) VH, re-registered ’57

Post by Roger Gwynn »

I would advise checking the plain plates for flatness as only slight distoration can cause a clutch to slip, which may be another reason that the springs were wound up so tight. Place a plate on a flat surface and press down near the edge in 2-3 places, if the opposite side lifts up, its bent, if not turn over and try the other side.
Roger Gwynn, Membership Secretary, curator of the Machine Register and the works drawings. Director of Draganfly Motorcycles, Craven Equipment and Supreme Motorcycles mostly retired.
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Re: 1954(ish) VH, re-registered ’57

Post by will_curry »

I'm interested to know if any of your plain are bent sufficiently to cause the clutch to
slip. In over 50 years of motorcycling I can't recall ever finding any Burman plates
bent enough to cause slip. My experience is that most Burman slip is due to lack
of clearance, usually due to mis-adjustment. Burman plates are quite thick, much
thicker than some modern replacement plates and this difference can cause all
sorts of issues.
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Re: 1954(ish) VH, re-registered ’57

Post by Julian Murphy »

You could try using a small flat file to file the edges of the slots in the clutch basket.

Although, as mentioned above, the greater the gap between plate ear to slot, the greater the opportunity of the plate to hammer a deeper indent, thereby making plate activation even more of an issue.
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Re: 1954(ish) VH, re-registered ’57

Post by Simon.Gardiner »

It's already hammering by the depth of the indent so filing/machining just the 'peaks' off can surely only improve things (for both the centre and the basket).

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'55 Huntmaster, '56 VH, ' 51 VH, '62 Arrow, '80 R100RT, '00 Sprint ST (now with a new Arrow project, and just now those 4-stroke Ariel parts can't even make one running bike...)
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Re: 1954(ish) VH, re-registered ’57

Post by SimonFletcher »

Thanks to all those who commented. I guess the overall picture is that the clutch components are actually quite worn.

For the time being it’s probably going to be a clean up and make do, with a view to gathering up some replacement parts. The clutch centre appears to be unavailable at Draganfly or club spares, likewise plates with cork inserts. As I’ve said before, my aim is to get the bike rolling in the spring, and take it from there.

For now, I will file off the ‘peaks’. I understand that taking a longer view this probably exacerbates the situation, but maybe it’ll buy a little time.

On a final note, I’d assumed that a friction plate with inserts would be cork, but I’ll take another look!
’54 VH,
‘72 BMW R60/5, ‘83 BMW R80RT
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Re: 1954(ish) VH, re-registered ’57

Post by will_curry »

It might well be possible to build up the hub with weld - I've done it with a clutch
basket. Minutes to apply the weld and days to file it all square again and it's
still going strong after nearly 20 years.

Put it back together with new springs and see if you still have a problem.

Burman gear changes aren't fast at all but the engine is beautifully flexible so
you shouldn't need to change gear that often. Make sure the clutch is fully home
before opening the throttle wide. This way the clutch gets a chance to grip before
the power appears - once it starts slipping it will carry on doing so.
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