Square Four Crankshaft Roller Bearings

[allan.walker]

I need some new replacement roller bearings and those offered by the 'usual supplier' are unbranded and labelled CRL9.

They have a pressed steel cage, as opposed to the riveted brass cages of the old, original type bearings I have come across. They may be perfectly fine, but it's an immense amount of work replacing main bearings in a Square Four and I am very wary of using unbranded bearings in any circumstances.

Am I worrying too much? Which brand and reference number bearings have you used?

[Bob.Murphy]

Its 50 years since I owned a Square Four, but something at the back of my mind says that one of the three roller bearings has a smaller internal bore than the other two - only a 'thou or two.

I would have thought you'd be looking for two different bearing references.

Have you tried 'Simply Bearings' - I find them helpful if you 'phone them.

I may be wrong, of course.

Bob.

[allan.walker]

Thanks Bob. Yes, there is a difference in the bearings. I wonder what medication the engine designer was on at the time.....
The recommendation I have received is to use the same ones throughout, but apply Loctite to the one in the gear case cover.

I have a collection of old roller bearings, removed from old crankshafts. One is marked CRL9 and has a riveted brass cage and eleven rollers. Then there are some with indistinct numbers (just nice words like 'Hoffman' visible!) Again, all with brass cages, but one with 11 rollers, one with 13 and the other with 14.
It seems to me that more rollers are preferable, but are they necessary?

I've had a look at online bearing suppliers, but I need some guidance on the specs required (eg, normal clearance, C3 etc.) Branded bearings of the correct size seem to range between £45 and £75.
Unbranded ones are, typically, half the price of the 'usual supplier.' I wonder how you determine the quality difference between two unbranded bearings, short of using them and seeing when they fail......
Hence my preference for branded ones.

Allan.

[Simon.Gardiner]

A Forum search on 'C3' will throw up a few discussions on bearings (fit, quality etc)!!

Mk2 has normal/standard fit bearings
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12311&p=86335&hilit=C3#p86335

Branding/costs/specs for a set for a VH
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7781&hilit=C3

I've just checked out the prices some 5 years on and what cost me under £100 back then is now nearer £300 (and Wych don't have them all in stock any more....)

(I know a lot of the discussions are about application in singles but the principles are the same - it just doesn't answer the question about the odd sized bearing in a Square, sorry!)

SG

[paul.jameson]

My advice would be to look at the range offered by "Simply Bearings" and take your pick. It isn't too critical unless you plan to do 100,000 miles towing a fully laden double adult sidecar but there is something to be said for doing without the lip on the bearing. I did have a bearing with the correct number on for the odd bearing so I did try one or two of the suppliers. None could find any reference for it so do what everyone else does and use some loctite. Its worked for me well enough for many years. Perhaps I should have tried to call in on you when I was up in Yorkshire on the Healey a couple of weeks ago.

[allan.walker]

A Forum search on 'C3' will throw up a few discussions on bearings (fit, quality etc)!!



SG

Thanks Simon. Some really useful information in those links.

I'm pleased to see that I'm not alone in disliking Chinese or Indian bearings......!

Allan.

[allan.walker]

My advice would be to look at the range offered by "Simply Bearings" and take your pick. It isn't too critical unless you plan to do 100,000 miles towing a fully laden double adult sidecar but there is something to be said for doing without the lip on the bearing. I did have a bearing with the correct number on for the odd bearing so I did try one or two of the suppliers. None could find any reference for it so do what everyone else does and use some loctite. Its worked for me well enough for many years. Perhaps I should have tried to call in on you when I was up in Yorkshire on the Healey a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks Paul. After a spot of googling, I've a list of tabs open on my laptop for different 'proper' bearings. Do you have an opinion on pressed-steel bearing races v. riveted brass? There are branded pressed-steel types as well as the unbranded unknown quantities, but they don't look great to me.

Regarding the lip, I also tend to agree with the advice on Draganfly's website, that the lipped outer race is probably unnecessary. I haven't found one online yet anyway.

Thanks for confirming that Loctite on the third bearing does the job.

I'm sorry that I missed-out on a chance to meet you (on your Healey, too!) I hope that there'll be other occasions.

Allan.

[paul.jameson]

I have used both pressed steel and riveted brass bearings over the years. I have never had one fail, but the riveted steel will disintegrate more easily if you have to remove them from the crank with a puller, as sometimes happens, especially for the outrigger bearing. I don't think it matters which you use, but if I had one of each available, I would probably use the rivetted brass one.

[Simon.Gardiner]

If you spend loadsa dosh on new RHPs for a VH you'll find they've got steel cages of one sort or another!
A lot of the old bearings I've got (some might have been factory originals) have steel cages. I lean towards preferring brass cages but I've stopped losing sleep over having steel ones.

SG

[allan.walker]

Thanks for your views, Paul and Simon.
The more I've looked online, the more it seems to me that the modern way of manufacture is to use the pressed steel cage. It makes sense, really, from a cost point of view.
Even if I were willing to pay for n.o.s. originals, I can't find any!

It looks like I'll be going for these:
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p6049 ... _info.html

They are lipped, as per the originals. They're no more expensive than similar quality unlipped ones so I may as well have them.

Allan.