Supposedly 1937 Red Hunter

[David.Samways]

Hello all. I've been offered the attached machine which I believe the vendor claims is a '37 500 Red Hunter.

I can see that the front end is obviously wrong - forks from an WNG? Goodness knows where that mudguard came from.

The engine, greabox and primary chaincase looks right to me, but I simply don't know enough. So does the toolbox and the oil tank if it is a '37.

No idea about the tank or the rear guard etc.

Any help appreciated. The vendor is asking just under £7K. Apparently this has the original registration mark and a V5.

David

[Julian Murphy]

I don't know any more than you unfortunately on this model.

However, twin port head, but only 1 pipe and silencer?

[adrie.degraaff]

The India petroltank is bad news.

[Simon.Gardiner]

'Back in the day' blanking off one exhaust port was the done thing to save on one of a pair of (expensive?) pipes and silences - and possibly to gain a bit more performance!
However in this case it looks just stingy.

Carb is a modern concentric - not necessarily a bad thing in itself but not original, if that's what you're looking for.
Inner timing cover looks to me to have the angular top lug of the mid/late fifties singles (so no oil gauge take-off, if there should be one).

David - you are aware of the frame/engine/gearbox number references (that will give the correct year codes) at https://draganfly.co.uk/wp-content/uplo ... el_vin.pdf ?

SG

[paul.jameson]

It is a bit of a mixture. engine, primary case, gearbox, oil tank, toolbox and mudguards could be 1937. Mudguard stays and number plates need replacing with correct items. Lower chainguard is missing. Wheels may be correct, but at that price I would expect red centres and gold line remains at least. Forks look like W/NG but might just be 1939 onwards civilian. Headlamp looks 1938 onwards. PA speedo has the wrong bezel and the panel light looks wrong. Steering damper knob is wrong. For 1937 the engine prefix should be CC and the frame prefix XF. Gearbox number should be XIBAPDH followed by a number probably between 40,000 and 50,000.

It doesn't look like a £7,000 bike to me because of all it needs putting right but it may well be a nice bike to ride as it is.

[David.Samways]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. It does come with the correct carb and also with a pair of correct type new silencers - although it would obviously need a pair of header pipes. It also comes with a new seat and apparently it runs well.

How can one tell it's an Indian tank? The vendor said it had been pained with some kind of chrome effect paint and it certainly looks to be that rather than the fairly decent chrome some of the Indian tanks have. I'll ask if it's an original or not.

It is a bit of an odd mixture really. I should have bought the very original and unrestored '46 machine that came up on eBay a few months ago, but it was is Scotland and I chickened out.

David

[Simon.Gardiner]

How can one tell it's an Indian tank? ...

Sometimes it's very obvious (tank badges at a crazy angle), sometimes not.
I've got an Indian tank for my '55 (thanks Paul L!) that fits fine, has good chrome and looks the right shape. If you take the (round) tank badges off you might think the badge mounting strips aren't quite 'proper Ariel', but it's only me who knows about that!
I'm very happy with it - but I guess if you wanted a totally 100% original bike you might be disappointed.

SG

[Vincent.vanGinneke]

Hello David, I'll add my penny worth's
As for the petrol tank, it could very well be a indian repro.
A check out is to look if there is a second hole for a post war speedo (at that point a Chronometric) going more or less straight up through the tank. Indian tank makers produce them with both holes. e.g. the more horizontal hole for the PA speedo running from inside the right hand rear in the tank and the second hole just mentioned. So any tank with two speedo cable holes is a Indian repro tank.
Apart from that, the absence of a 'dent' for the tank badges already gives it away as a repro unless the dent has been filled in with bondo
The front mudguard has been shortened at the front, this happens a lot after frequently banging it up against what not, up to a point that the owner decides to 'smarten it up' again
It could be a VG made to look like a RH difficult to see on the pics- engine is older then the front fork which has the '39 onwards check springs .
Get the numbers on the frame and engine checked.
7000,- is on the high side, I would try in the region of 5K as it still needs a lot to be done.

e.g. all handlebar controls are postwar, finding the solid levers and the dual EXH/MAG models gets more and more difficult and can cost 'a arm and a leg' .

[David.Samways]

The vendor just sent the engine and frame numbers:
Frame No. XF9562
Engine No. CD2876

So a '37 frame and '38 engine. That definitely rules it out, thanks again for all of the input.

[Simon.Gardiner]

Bit of a coincidence - also a query about '37/'38 numbers here.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12745

You guys after the same bike? Or did Ariel really overlap the numbers for '37 frames and '38 engines?

Only one of us knows the answer..... !!

SG