Arrow 6v charging system

will_curry
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Re: Arrow 6v charging system

Post by will_curry »

I've found the Lucas service sheets at last.

The figures for voltage are given across a 1 ohm load resistance which is a
better test than open-circuit

WG/GB 3.0v AC
WG/GY 6.0v AC
There isn't a figure for GB/GY.

Did you get a new rotor with your new stator? As Brian says there are different sorts of rotor both
in diameter and length. As well as that the rotor can become demagetised. The advantage of the
1 ohm load resistor test is that it will show up a wrong or poorly magnetised rotor.
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Re: Arrow 6v charging system

Post by White.John.A »

Hi,
Sorry for not replying. I did take readings on Tuesday .As they didn't seem to make sence to me, I decided to repeat them and also check other things. Unfortunately the rolling road had a problem and so I spent my spare time on Wednesday sorting it out. I am hopping to be back on the case tomorrow.
Thank you for your help and the information.
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Re: Arrow 6v charging system

Post by White.John.A »

There have been many cross roads in doing this project.I am feeling that I am at a new one. My first major one was when I decided to get someone who was supposed to be a motor cycle mechanic to refurbish the engine for me. It never worked, and this is when I thought I would do it myself. I had no idea of the extent of the problems I would encounter. I then decided that i would like to keep the bike as original as possible. This turned out to be impractical if not impossible, as so many of the original parts did not work properly. But then some of the new parts didn't either. To continue with my dream, I would like to carry on with trying to sort out this problem, which would be good experience before considering that I need to upgrade to 12v. which i am sure will have its problems. Getting back to the issue.
The new alternator and the rotor were bought together at the same time.
What would i need to do to increase the magnetism? Did you test them at the shop?
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Re: Arrow 6v charging system

Post by White.John.A »

Hello Will,
It would appear that my attempts to post my latest information has not been sent.
My latest tests were:-
The outlet from the alternator wires to ground were:- BG to Earth = OL ; GW to Earth = OL and GY to Earth = OL.
1) BG to Earth = 9.6 Vac to 21.5 Vac ; GW to Earth = 9.05 to 24 Vac and GY to Earth = 9.06 to 20.8 Vac
2) BG to GY = 18.4 to 40 Vac ; GW to GY = 18 to 40 Vac ; GY to GB = 1.9 to 2.4 Vac
3) I then disconnected the wire from the headlight switch to the ignition switch.
GY = 0.18 to 0.25 Vac ; GB 18.3 Vac to 48 Vac with the headlights off. And
5.3 Vac to 50 Vac with the headlights on. I reinstalled the wire and the reading between the two switches were 9.3 Vac to 23 Vac. The 23 Vac was precise. While the others were fluctuating.
I could see the amp meter trying to move from the negative position towards the centre, but the headlights didn’t show any signs of getting brighter.
. I don’t know what the results should be. So unsure what it is telling me?
will_curry
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Re: Arrow 6v charging system

Post by will_curry »

One point I should have made is that when testing the voltages between alternator
leads they need to be completely disconnected from the wiring loom. My apologies if
my oversight has misled you.

I don't understand what you mean when you say:
"The outlet from the alternator wires to ground were:- BG to Earth = OL ; GW to Earth = OL and GY to Earth = OL."

If the alternator wires were disconnected from the rest of the loom when you took the measurements in item 1
then there is a short circuit in one or more of the alternator coils to the alternator body and unless this can be
remedied the alternator is useless.

My intention too is to keep my Arrow as original as possible including paintwork where I can.
The only issue so far has been the discovery that the front forks are slightly bent and may well
have to be replaced. I've not yet started on the engine but it will certainly need new seals and
hopefully nothing else. As far as electrics go the intention is leave it as it is at 6v as long as it
works.

I worked on both Leaders and Arrows in the 60's but I haven't since.
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Re: Arrow 6v charging system

Post by White.John.A »

Hi Will,
You didn't mislead me, as I did the tests with the alternator disconnected from the wiring loom.
One of the ways I tested the alternator was to connect the common line of the multi meter to earth and then I set the meter to Ohms and checked the output of each of the alternator leads. This gave a reading of OL in each case. For the second test I started the bike and tested each alternator wire still with the common lead connected to earth. Which gave the figures shown on my note 1 previously. I’m not sure what this is telling me. From what you have said, it appear that the alternator is faulty?
If this is the case I will probably look to up grade to 12v as Brian is suggesting.
Good luck with your project. Bent forks is a tricky one. I also found that changing the seals was not as easy as I expected. Something I would not want to do again. Enjoy.
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Re: Arrow 6v charging system

Post by bh.sprint »

HelloJohn,
Is your multimeter an auto ranging type, which varys until it finds a steady/correct reading. ?

And mine gives a reading of A L when it is open circuit and the probes are not touching/connected.

One of the older riders gave some reading for a healthy alternator and for a 6 voly system it was 7 volts , I think, measured at the battery.

Brian H.
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Roger Gwynn
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Re: Arrow 6v charging system

Post by Roger Gwynn »

What does OL and AL mean on an ohmeter? I usually get a reading in ohms or 'out of range' or similar if an open circuit.

Testing with an ohmeter between an alternator wire and earth, whilst it is diconected from the reat of the bike should show an open circuit or infinity. Running the bike, still with the wires disconnected and testing across pairs of alternator wires should give a Voltage that rises rapidly as the revs are increased across 2 of the possible 3 pairs and a much lower figure across the 3rd pair. The one wire that is not in the 3rd pair is the common wire.
If you send me a PM I can send you a copy of the Lucas manual with all the testing procedures. It also has chapters on how things work if you want to know but you can just use the test section.
Roger Gwynn, Membership Secretary, curator of the Machine Register and the works drawings. Director of Draganfly Motorcycles, Craven Equipment and Supreme Motorcycles mostly retired.
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Re: Arrow 6v charging system

Post by eadriclloyd »

John,

What part of the country are you in?
Beware that the Ignition and light switches changed significantly in 1961, as did the wiring loom.
You need the correct wiring diagram for your year of bike. I can send both, if required.
I had post 1961 switches and unwittingly ordered a pre 1961 wiring loom, which did not work together.
The solid state rectifiers cost about £7 off of the internet. See picture attached.
Eddie Lloyd
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Rectifier.docx
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White.John.A
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Re: Arrow 6v charging system

Post by White.John.A »

Thank you all for your replies. For Brian, my multi meter is an auto varying type.
For Roger. I believe as Brian is saying the AL is open circuit. I have results from my previous alternator and the new, which have given similar results. In my case it is the GW/GY which gives a much lower reading. I believed that all readings should be the same. If you could confirm that this is incorrect. I would think it would rule out the alternator. My output from the alternator with the bike running, was:- BG/GW = 18.4 Vac to 40 Vac ; GW / GY : 18 Vac to 40 Vac ; GY/ GW 1.9 Vac to 2.4Vac
Thanks for the offer of the Lucas Manual. I have already obtained a copy. Unfortunately I found it a bit too technical for me.
For Eddie The year for my bike is 1962, and I live in Sittingbourne Kent. While I have a manual for the bike the light switch and ignition switches are new. It could be that the switches are different from the original. I am trying to see if I can check this out.
I am considering the rectifier is not working properly. But as I have already obtained three, which are all giving me an output of about 6.5 V, I’m at a loss as to know what to try next. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem with the rectifiers, and if so how they overcome it?
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